1. The film is seen through a masculine lens. The long lines of customers are largely young, virile-looking males. The people interviewed are mostly guys. The two women customers featured are defined by negative stereotypes, giddy blonde and dowdy matron. The cheesesteak restaurants are owned by men and named after them (Pat’s, Geno’s, and Tony Luke’s). Virtually all of the cooks shown are men (at least the ones with “speaking parts”). What does this say about the filmmaker’s point of view? Could this film have been done just as playfully and effectively if seen through a different lens?
2. Ashley made a good observation in class about the structure of the film being thematic, with sequences related not through chronology or causality but by concept. The theme is the quality of Philadelphia cheesesteaks. What are some of the ways the filmmaker links the sequences by theme?
3. What rhetorical device is most prominent in the film? Does the rhetorical strategy succeed in acclimating viewers to the world of the film? What message is the filmmaker trying to get across, and does he accomplish it?
4. Finally, which of the three cheesesteak vendors would YOU patronize, and why?
To question 3, I think this film is all ethos. Especially living in Pennsylvania, we know that Philadelphians are characters. They're loud know-it-alls in the best possible ways. None of the people interviewed were meek or subtle; all had an opinion and if you didn't agree with it, then you're wrong. It's that attitude that makes this film so fun. It's not meant in a mean way, but rather in a way that characterizes Philly. I think he wanted to capture that attitude in a forum that yells Philly: cheesesteak!
1) I think there's a weird gendering of food going on, within the film and within American culture at large. With Father's Day ads all over the place, everyone is trying to convince us that all Dad wants is a new grill, because Man is King of Meat. On the other hand, I can't remember the last time I saw a man eating yogurt in a yogurt commercial. A quick google led me to this article (http://www.baltimoreeats.com/article.php?id=233) aggregates a few studies and examples of people dividing food into male and female. So when we think of big, meaty, greasy cheesesteaks, most people will instinctively think MAN FOOD. Toolman Tim Taylor grunting, etc. Did the filmmakers focus on men more on purpose, or were men the subjects most willing to be interviewed? I don't know. But I DID appreciate the women they did talk to.
4. I'm a big fan of Pat's! My little brother Benji is in the Air Force, and his first leave home the very first thing he wanted was a Pat's cheesesteak. On the way home from the airport, my entire family stopped for lunch. At Pat's you HAVE to order the correct way, so we all hung back from the window while my 6'5" brother in his combat boots and ABU gear ordered six steaks wit wiz, drinks, fries, the works. The owner happened to be working the window, and after giving Ben a quick once-over said abruptly, "You in the Air Force?" Ben replied with a Yes sir, and he responded, "Thank you for serving. Lunch is on me" and turned away. My reasoning, to use our text terms :), is really 100% Pathos. It was a super emotional day to begin with, and that touched me. Plus, the cheesesteak was freaking delicious.
I have no idea what this is about, but since I'm the only male student in the class, let me say that I LOVE CHEESE-STEAK and that if you try to serve me one with 'wiz' (I assume that's Cheese-whiz) I will strongly clarify for you what a proper cheese-steak contains and try to limit my scorn as I demand an apology and my money back.
I find it interesting that food is viewed through a gender lens -- inside the home, it is seen as the purview of the woman, but outside of the home, 'good' food (food done well, with skill and understanding) is seen as the province of men. One of my guilty pleasures is watching Diners, Drive-ins and Dives; the host is definitely a GUY (pun intended), and he praises the qualities of the food using strong, masculine adjectives. For, well, forever, nearly all famous, successful, renowned chefs have been men. This is partly due to the fact that a commercial kitchen is a very, VERY, tough, hot, dirty, stressful, ego-filled cauldron of highly-specialized skill-sets, demanding budgets and timetables, and exacting (at times frustrating and ridiculous) quality control measures. I mean insanely so. It is very much like combat, and women find it difficult to cut out a niche for themselves in that environment. Some do, and are very successful at it, but the overwhelming majority of professional cooks are men.
[Anyone who has seen Disney's Ratatouille will remember the ONE female character in the kitchen and how tough she was. I found the characters of the kitchen staff in that movie to be both humorous and dead-on; I've worked with every one of those people.]
Go into the back of most restaurants that advertise "Mom's Home Cooking" and you will see a room full of over-worked, underpaid, irrationally proud men.
I like that you bring up the topic of gender and perspective. In the beginning we see females discussing their favorite cheese steak, yet not saying much. The one female that does speak, at least to me was categorized as the dumb female. We did not understand her, we laughed at her. Is eating a cheese-steak a MANLY thing?
Wes you bring up a good point about the masculine language within the film.
I am going to admit this, but I have never had a cheese steak, I am the world's pickiest eater. But I think I would go to the one that was mentioned the least, I forget the name of it now. It just appeared to have a different atmosphere that I would prefer over the more popularized ones.
There certainly was a predominance of males in this doc, probably for a couple of reasons. Along the same lines as what Courtney already mentioned, men and red meat are closely associated in the foot gendering world. Add in the greasy and "man-sized" characteristics of cheesesteaks, and it is not difficult to see why men and cheesesteaks are so closely associated. I'm sure the fact that men were primarily interviewed does, to some extent, speak to the majority of these establishments' customer base; I'm sure men made up the greater portion of the lines. But I think the filmmaker also wanted this short documentary to be funny and loud unabashedly (and sometimes irrationally) opinionated. Young men, especially at two in the morning with several alcoholic drinks coursing through them, better lend themselves to this type of display than many women. I don't think it was an intentional gender bias, although it can certainly be analyzed that way. And Wes makes a good point about men in commercial kitchens. I have worked in the restaurant industry for nine years and have only seen a handful of women working on the line and even fewer who cook at the same level as men. A distinct racial predominance is also commonly present, as you will see more black and Hispanic men cooking than white. This is an interesting standard since in the domestic sense we primarily put women in the kitchen, especially white women, per the 1950's suburban housewife stereotype. However, we have not strayed from the food service of women commercially - we still consider waitresses to be the norm in restaurants over male servers. For whatever reason, we still expect women to serve us meals even when it is men who are cooking.
The stereotyping of food by gender is something pretty deeply ingrained in our commercial culture--the idea that steaks, burgers, really anything MEATY is a man's meal is definitely supported by this video; on the other hand, one only has to watch a commercial break during daytime television programming to see a woman's domain: yogurt and salads. I definitely think that stereotype plays out in this film and I would have appreciated more female perspectives. As a woman, I love a good cheesesteak (and I agree with Wes that wiz is an abomination--I was disgusted when I learned it was a staple of the famous Philly cheesesteak).
As for rhetoric, I definitely saw a mix of ethos and pathos here, though I'd probably give the edge to pathos. The subjects interviewed were certainly credible; we had no reason to doubt their opinions as they waited in line for their perfect cheesesteaks, and they were very upfront with their opinions. This film, however, was so rooted in a love of Philadelphia and its culture as represented in this culinary ideal. The interview subjects expressed their love of their favorite cheesesteaks in very emotional terms, as well. It definitely communicated the pride people take in the city, and had the added effect of making me want to enact my own perfect cheesesteak experiment.
If I had to choose? Probably Geno's...the steak looked to be the best quality and the establishment seemed cleaner (a view supported by the patrons of Pat's). Hold the wiz though...I prefer real cheese.
Ashely, I agree with you that men tend to be rowdier than women when it comes to talking about food, and I think that this rowdy rivalry is something that the filmmaker wanted to focus on. I have only been to Pat's once (I was warned to NEVER go to Geno's) and when I went the crowed was a pretty good mixture of both men and women. I think the filmmaker geared his interviews towards men because they gave the funniest and loudest responses. It could also be because men are considered the "kings of meat" and providing their option my have given the film more ethos than if the filmmaker interviewed more women.
3. I just watched this-so I can finally answer the questions here! I feel that he used primarily ethos. I found myself getting angry when they interviewed the one person who said that he "didn't really like cheesesteaks all that much, but...so and so said this place was the best." That answer alone is an excellent example of how important ethos is to the way we make decisions about simple subjects like this. How much of the perspective that we've talked about in class plays into this as well? I seems to me that few of the people interviewed actually had a real reason for why they chose a certain place. Few answers had to do with the actual reasons why those interviewed did not like one particular cheesesteak or the other. It seemed like it was more about rivalry than anything.
1. The film is seen through a masculine lens. The long lines of customers are largely young, virile-looking males. The people interviewed are mostly guys. The two women customers featured are defined by negative stereotypes, giddy blonde and dowdy matron. The cheesesteak restaurants are owned by men and named after them (Pat’s, Geno’s, and Tony Luke’s). Virtually all of the cooks shown are men (at least the ones with “speaking parts”). What does this say about the filmmaker’s point of view? Could this film have been done just as playfully and effectively if seen through a different lens?
ReplyDelete2. Ashley made a good observation in class about the structure of the film being thematic, with sequences related not through chronology or causality but by concept. The theme is the quality of Philadelphia cheesesteaks. What are some of the ways the filmmaker links the sequences by theme?
3. What rhetorical device is most prominent in the film? Does the rhetorical strategy succeed in acclimating viewers to the world of the film? What message is the filmmaker trying to get across, and does he accomplish it?
4. Finally, which of the three cheesesteak vendors would YOU patronize, and why?
To question 3, I think this film is all ethos. Especially living in Pennsylvania, we know that Philadelphians are characters. They're loud know-it-alls in the best possible ways. None of the people interviewed were meek or subtle; all had an opinion and if you didn't agree with it, then you're wrong. It's that attitude that makes this film so fun. It's not meant in a mean way, but rather in a way that characterizes Philly. I think he wanted to capture that attitude in a forum that yells Philly: cheesesteak!
Delete1) I think there's a weird gendering of food going on, within the film and within American culture at large. With Father's Day ads all over the place, everyone is trying to convince us that all Dad wants is a new grill, because Man is King of Meat. On the other hand, I can't remember the last time I saw a man eating yogurt in a yogurt commercial. A quick google led me to this article (http://www.baltimoreeats.com/article.php?id=233) aggregates a few studies and examples of people dividing food into male and female. So when we think of big, meaty, greasy cheesesteaks, most people will instinctively think MAN FOOD. Toolman Tim Taylor grunting, etc. Did the filmmakers focus on men more on purpose, or were men the subjects most willing to be interviewed? I don't know. But I DID appreciate the women they did talk to.
ReplyDelete4. I'm a big fan of Pat's! My little brother Benji is in the Air Force, and his first leave home the very first thing he wanted was a Pat's cheesesteak. On the way home from the airport, my entire family stopped for lunch. At Pat's you HAVE to order the correct way, so we all hung back from the window while my 6'5" brother in his combat boots and ABU gear ordered six steaks wit wiz, drinks, fries, the works. The owner happened to be working the window, and after giving Ben a quick once-over said abruptly, "You in the Air Force?" Ben replied with a Yes sir, and he responded, "Thank you for serving. Lunch is on me" and turned away. My reasoning, to use our text terms :), is really 100% Pathos. It was a super emotional day to begin with, and that touched me. Plus, the cheesesteak was freaking delicious.
Thanks for sharing the story about your brother, Courtney. That tipped the scales for Pat's, in my book!
ReplyDeleteHow many films did you watch on Thursday?!
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what this is about, but since I'm the only male student in the class, let me say that I LOVE CHEESE-STEAK and that if you try to serve me one with 'wiz' (I assume that's Cheese-whiz) I will strongly clarify for you what a proper cheese-steak contains and try to limit my scorn as I demand an apology and my money back.
I find it interesting that food is viewed through a gender lens -- inside the home, it is seen as the purview of the woman, but outside of the home, 'good' food (food done well, with skill and understanding) is seen as the province of men. One of my guilty pleasures is watching Diners, Drive-ins and Dives; the host is definitely a GUY (pun intended), and he praises the qualities of the food using strong, masculine adjectives. For, well, forever, nearly all famous, successful, renowned chefs have been men. This is partly due to the fact that a commercial kitchen is a very, VERY, tough, hot, dirty, stressful, ego-filled cauldron of highly-specialized skill-sets, demanding budgets and timetables, and exacting (at times frustrating and ridiculous) quality control measures. I mean insanely so. It is very much like combat, and women find it difficult to cut out a niche for themselves in that environment. Some do, and are very successful at it, but the overwhelming majority of professional cooks are men.
[Anyone who has seen Disney's Ratatouille will remember the ONE female character in the kitchen and how tough she was. I found the characters of the kitchen staff in that movie to be both humorous and dead-on; I've worked with every one of those people.]
Go into the back of most restaurants that advertise "Mom's Home Cooking" and you will see a room full of over-worked, underpaid, irrationally proud men.
I like that you bring up the topic of gender and perspective. In the beginning we see females discussing their favorite cheese steak, yet not saying much. The one female that does speak, at least to me was categorized as the dumb female. We did not understand her, we laughed at her. Is eating a cheese-steak a MANLY thing?
ReplyDeleteWes you bring up a good point about the masculine language within the film.
I am going to admit this, but I have never had a cheese steak, I am the world's pickiest eater. But I think I would go to the one that was mentioned the least, I forget the name of it now. It just appeared to have a different atmosphere that I would prefer over the more popularized ones.
There certainly was a predominance of males in this doc, probably for a couple of reasons. Along the same lines as what Courtney already mentioned, men and red meat are closely associated in the foot gendering world. Add in the greasy and "man-sized" characteristics of cheesesteaks, and it is not difficult to see why men and cheesesteaks are so closely associated. I'm sure the fact that men were primarily interviewed does, to some extent, speak to the majority of these establishments' customer base; I'm sure men made up the greater portion of the lines. But I think the filmmaker also wanted this short documentary to be funny and loud unabashedly (and sometimes irrationally) opinionated. Young men, especially at two in the morning with several alcoholic drinks coursing through them, better lend themselves to this type of display than many women. I don't think it was an intentional gender bias, although it can certainly be analyzed that way.
ReplyDeleteAnd Wes makes a good point about men in commercial kitchens. I have worked in the restaurant industry for nine years and have only seen a handful of women working on the line and even fewer who cook at the same level as men. A distinct racial predominance is also commonly present, as you will see more black and Hispanic men cooking than white. This is an interesting standard since in the domestic sense we primarily put women in the kitchen, especially white women, per the 1950's suburban housewife stereotype. However, we have not strayed from the food service of women commercially - we still consider waitresses to be the norm in restaurants over male servers. For whatever reason, we still expect women to serve us meals even when it is men who are cooking.
The stereotyping of food by gender is something pretty deeply ingrained in our commercial culture--the idea that steaks, burgers, really anything MEATY is a man's meal is definitely supported by this video; on the other hand, one only has to watch a commercial break during daytime television programming to see a woman's domain: yogurt and salads. I definitely think that stereotype plays out in this film and I would have appreciated more female perspectives. As a woman, I love a good cheesesteak (and I agree with Wes that wiz is an abomination--I was disgusted when I learned it was a staple of the famous Philly cheesesteak).
ReplyDeleteAs for rhetoric, I definitely saw a mix of ethos and pathos here, though I'd probably give the edge to pathos. The subjects interviewed were certainly credible; we had no reason to doubt their opinions as they waited in line for their perfect cheesesteaks, and they were very upfront with their opinions. This film, however, was so rooted in a love of Philadelphia and its culture as represented in this culinary ideal. The interview subjects expressed their love of their favorite cheesesteaks in very emotional terms, as well. It definitely communicated the pride people take in the city, and had the added effect of making me want to enact my own perfect cheesesteak experiment.
If I had to choose? Probably Geno's...the steak looked to be the best quality and the establishment seemed cleaner (a view supported by the patrons of Pat's). Hold the wiz though...I prefer real cheese.
Ashely, I agree with you that men tend to be rowdier than women when it comes to talking about food, and I think that this rowdy rivalry is something that the filmmaker wanted to focus on. I have only been to Pat's once (I was warned to NEVER go to Geno's) and when I went the crowed was a pretty good mixture of both men and women. I think the filmmaker geared his interviews towards men because they gave the funniest and loudest responses. It could also be because men are considered the "kings of meat" and providing their option my have given the film more ethos than if the filmmaker interviewed more women.
ReplyDelete3. I just watched this-so I can finally answer the questions here! I feel that he used primarily ethos. I found myself getting angry when they interviewed the one person who said that he "didn't really like cheesesteaks all that much, but...so and so said this place was the best." That answer alone is an excellent example of how important ethos is to the way we make decisions about simple subjects like this. How much of the perspective that we've talked about in class plays into this as well? I seems to me that few of the people interviewed actually had a real reason for why they chose a certain place. Few answers had to do with the actual reasons why those interviewed did not like one particular cheesesteak or the other. It seemed like it was more about rivalry than anything.
ReplyDelete4. None of them! I'm a vegetarian! =)